Garage BTA System v2.0

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


Well ... the madness begins again. After the heat Gods of the San Gabriel valley decided to smite my previous BTA culture system, I decided that a change in scenery was in order. This is the view from the backyard where the new system lives ...

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/01_bta02_09sanClemente.gif

Catastrophic heat events will no longer be an issue .... :cool: :party:


If folks will forgive a little semi-incoherent ranting ... :eek: ...

The system is intended to facilitate the asexual propagation of Entacmea quadricolor anemones. It is definitely not the variety of system that Mr. Calfo has been advocating for the last few years, as it is not designed for maximum cost effectiveness. Photodocumentation is a priority, so at least a third of the total system will have glass tanks ... definitely not cost effective. PAR, bulb spectrum & wattage, water column chemistry, bulk flow, temperature, phototaxis, surface geometry vs. location preference, dietary formulae, feeding schedule and growth pattern observational data sets (I wouldn't dare call my observations "research"), are all anticipated.

Anything else that folks can suggest which would prove helpful to the development of culture protocols is heartily encouraged. I'm definitely looking forward to the input of ProjectDIBS members.

The system's volume will eventually contain ~ 600 gallons (ten 60 gallon compartments) of propagation space, with a 200 gallon central-common sump. Which leads me to the topic at or near the top of my personal "investigations" interest list ... self/non-self recognition dynamics. That genetically different specimens cannot be efficiently cultured within the same tank is a given (physical contact with a genetically different specimen's proteins triggers aggression), but the question as to whether or not genetically different populations can be effectively asexually propagated within the same system remains an open question (can the proteins which trigger aggression be transmitted through the water column, and if so, is it possible to filter such proteins out of the system?).

Welcome to one of the most poorly understood realms of captive marine husbandry ... allelopathy. If we can figure out just a part of the self/non-self dynamic associated with anemones in marine aquaria, we will have done something important ... and answered part of one of the most fundamental issues of anemone propagation system design.

Filtration will include ~ 8 cubic feet of bioballs in a wet/dry configuration (the blue tubes), sponge filters within each compartment, protein skimming, and ozonation. I'm still pondering whether or not I want to include either UV sterilization, RDSB (for ROC), a Chaetomorpha ATS, and/or zeolith media.

Lighting will start out with 3 X 39 watt HO T5 bulbs (3 X 36" bulbs) per 60 gallon compartment. Don't be surprised if this configuration significantly evolves over time. Heaters, chiller, and various pumps will also be utilized.

The central sump may also be used to co-culture ProjectDIBS Turbos, and Thor ambionensis ... but those tanks are still on the drawing board.

Pictures of the initial system set-up follow ... looking forward to peoples' input.

TIA
:D

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


Just to give you an idea of how "organized" and well "thought-out" this all is ...

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/03_bta02_09pvcMess.gif

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/02_bta02_09pvcMess02.gif



:D

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


For folks who've never experienced the "thrill" of DIY play with bulkheads and PVC ...

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/04_bta02_09bulkheadSump.gif

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/05_bta02_09tankBulkheadSeal.gif

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/06_bta02_09bioTowerfeeds.gif


:D

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


It begins to take form ...

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/07_bta02_09completeSide.gif

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/08_bta02_09sumpPlumbDwnview.gif

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/09_bta02_09sumpLayout.gif


:D

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


The current form. Freshwater plumbing test happens Thursday morning ...

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/10_bta02_09complete02.gif

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/11_bta02_09complete.gif



:D

[graveyardworm]

I like it, what size tanks are you using? I've seen those 4 tube towers before, what are they?

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


... what size tanks are you using? ... The ones pictured are standard 60E glass tanks from Lee Mar, with built-in overflow boxes. The bottom of the overflow boxes are drilled for 1.5" bulkheads. The fitting that's screwed into the bulkheads is a 1.5" - 2" adapter, so the drain pipes themselves are 2" .

Future tanks may be more of the same, but I'm also considering building my own glass tanks, or constructing wooden frames with pond liners.


... I've seen those 4 tube towers before, what are they?They're the clones of the ones I built at the warehouse. They function as wet/dry bio-towers. They'll be fed by a 1/10th HP in-line pump. Each column holds ~ 2 cubic feet of bioballs. They're constructed with schedule 30 PVC (all the other PVC in the system is schedule 40), with matching connector and reducer (on top). The paint is a zero-environment impact enamel, coated with polyurethane. All pieces are friction fit to allow for easy cleaning/maintenance.


:D

["Umm, fish?"]

How the heck did you get your plumbing to glue up so nicely? Mine's always a huge mess.

BTW, it looks great, Gary. Good luck!

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


How the heck did you get your plumbing to glue up so nicely? Mine's always a huge mess. ... I pre-cut and pre-fit everything ... makes things much easier. I don't apply massive amounts of glue. There's a weak chemical weld going on, so a little goes a long way. When gluing, 2/3 of the total glue used goes into the fitting, while the other 1/3 goes onto the pipe end. Finally, I twist the pipe as I'm inserting it into the fitting. This tends to wrap excess glue around the joint, as opposed to it forming a drip/run.

It also helps to over-expose the pictures so that the white of the pipe obscures weld-on boo-boos ... :D ;)


JMO
:p

[GreshamH]

Less is better is glue :) Too much and you can actually weaken the joint. Always prep both ends as well, especially if your twisting.

Looks nice, can'tr wait to see it in operation. If you need any broodstock, we seem to be sick in BTA's up here at times :)

["Umm, fish?"]

Well, I do all of that (including overexposing the photos :) ). I guess I just have a hard time getting all of the slop off the application brush. Mostly, I'd guess, it's all 'cause I'm always in such a hurry because the glue gives me such a nasty headache.

Put it on the list for the new fishroom: better exhaust fans!

[GreshamH]

An old can of glue is your enemy :) I happen to do a lot of different PVC projects, so my cans are always fresh. I also tend to scrape my applicator brush off on cardboard after using it. I hate getting those partially cured buggers in the can :(

When I worked at a LFS I helped construct the systems. I had a FULL large can of Red Hot sitting on a shlef above my head while I was glueing. Some kid though it would be great to spill the can.....it coverred me head to toe just about. It when down my face, I moved away as far I could, and it continued down my back, into my pants, down my pants and into my shoes. Being I was under a jungle of pipes in a pallet rack shelf, I had not place to go :( No piece of clothing wasn't soaked in Blue glue :( Got the day off though...had to clean up the mess the next day though...with a chisel!

[BrianPlankis]

Gary,

OK, one obvious question that comes up, how are you going to cover the overflows to prevent the anemones from clogging them?

I would probably have more questions if I wasn't sleep deprived :D

Brian

["Umm, fish?"]

See! I told you to take naps. No one ever listens.... :)

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


... I would probably have more questions if I wasn't sleep deprived :D ...Hehe ... suck it up. You've got years of sleep deprivation trials ahead of you. :eek: :party: :cool:



... OK, one obvious question that comes up, how are you going to cover the overflows to prevent the anemones from clogging them? ... In retrospect, the overflow boxes were a relatively expensive blunder, but they did inspire an idea about how to capture pelagic larvae (particularly in "pre-existing" non-specialized systems).

While I'm unconvinced that glass ... or any other smooth, hard surface ... is entirely inappropriate to an anemone propagation tank, it would clearly cut down on specimen removal efficiency. I've tried out astroturf and Calfo is correct ... Entacmaea and Heteractis specimens attached nicely without issue. But the color ... yikes ... I never knew that I harbored such an intense resentment for the majority of the surfaces in a marine aquarium being bright artificial green. Plus, photodocumentation is a biggie, and a fake bright green astroturf background just simply doesn't work for me ... not even. I've been pondering the pros & cons of dark grey carpet vs. black screen mesh (or mesh containers), and have decided that I'm going to go with chemically untreated, rubber-backed indoor/outdoor olefin weave carpeting in these first tanks. Since I knew I would be doing either carpet or mesh, some form of "frame" was inevitable ... in other words there was always another "barrier" in mind to prevent specimens from getting sucked into the overflow.

The only thing I'm still pondering is how to maximize "surface skimming". Some combination of eggcrate, sponge, and mesh which will span the width of the tank at the surface near the overflow will soon be taking form ... basically something which isn't easily dislodged by colorful muscle tissue with nematocysts, will take a long time for mucus and particulates to clog, and which will be easily removable & cleanable.


:D

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


There's another thing about the carpet ... artificial crevices. But let me back up a bit.

Entacmaea anemones WANT to attach themselves in a crevice or hole, primarily for protection, but also for extra control over exposure to light and flow. This is a fundamental behavior for them, and since I'm someone who wants them to be "very happy" ... as in grow rapidly, photosynthesize & utilize energy with maximum efficiently, ward off pathogens, and reproduce (without a knife) ... I've given a lot of thought to how I might address this fundamental behavior. Mesh "baskets", plastic horticulture "pots", breakaway live rock structures, breakaway arago-crete structures, various acrylic or glass geometric "corner" pieces, breakaway PVC "donuts", aragonite lined breakaway PVC "donuts, friction-fit ("removable") colored acrylic cylinder grids ...

... let's just say I may have been thinking about it way, way too much ... :eek: :D

Oddly enough, my conclusion is that I'm going to start to fool around with folding and "shaping" indoor/outdoor carpeting in an attempt to create artificial crevices which will make them happy, while allowing me to remove them more easily. We'll see.


JMO
:D

[CarmieJo]

WOW! With that view from the backyard I don't think you will get much work done!

It will be great to see this prop system from the ground up.

[graveyardworm]

What about lining something like the plastic pots with the carpet so the carpet could easily be removed from the pot. Probably wouldnt take much to cut pieces that could fit snugly in there.

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


What about lining something like the plastic pots with the carpet so the carpet could easily be removed from the pot. ... Excellent idea. The only concern is ... flow.

Mr. Calfo and romar had an exchange about this issue here:
http://forum.marinedepot.com/FindPost73410.aspx


From this thread:

small RBTA farm
(MD, romanr, 07.21.2007)
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic71127-13-1.aspx


romanr's choice of a "mesh basket" partially filled with substrate has much merit, and it's a classic tactic for folks doing asexual mushroom propagation. This is one of those decisions where I change my mind about what I really want to do every 10.2 minutes. One of the other options I'm considering is to use a basket like the ones romar is using, but without the substrate and lined with window screen ... easy removal, significantly reduced light penetration, and nice flow-through.


And yet, there may be "issues" with mesh or screen-lined baskets. A layer of carpet may very well be the way to go. For example ...


Okay, this is a first in my (admittedly limited) bta propagating experience. I pulled 6 +/- 6" rbta's out to cut. These have not been cut for over a month. They are kept in plant baskets (no indoor/outdoor carpeting yet, I'm planning on that soon, especially after today's events). The first four came out of the basket easily enough, looked normal on the cutting board, and got what I believe *knock on wood* were good cuts. They're already pulling the foot back around to close up the cut in the "snot bath"

The second two though, when I gently peeled their foot off the basket, both all but turned themselves inside-out. Mouths gaping, brown slimey-looking stuff on the entire top of what, just a minute before, had been the oral disk. I didn't cut those two, obviously. I put them in the "snot bath" with the ones that had been cut and a half hour later they are looking back to normal.

I'm just wondering if I stressed them too much peeling them loose from the basket (did nothing different than any other time I've done this), or what. And if so I'm going carpet shopping tonight, assuming I can find smaller pieces of the right kind.

redsonja
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic65773-13-1.aspx

from:

Something wierd happened cutting BTA's just now
(MD, redsonja, 04.12.2007)
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic65773-13-1.aspx





I'm still pondering
:eek:

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


It lives ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/bta02_itLives.gif


I altered the bio-tower configuration (... fluidized bed, and modified fluidized bed components will be added instead of more bio-balls ...), and plumbed both returns into a single pump ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/bta02_sumpPumpChange.gif


I also modified the return from the ASM G-6 skimmer. The return from the skimmer is now focused upstream from the skimmer pumps ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/bta02_asmBtowerMod.gif




:D

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


Here's the structure which will support the astro-turf ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/bta02_001.gif


http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/bta02_002.gif


http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/bta02_003.gif


http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/bta02_004.gif

Astro-turf gets inserted this week, if I have the time. I finally chose a color for it ... Blue.


:D

[graveyardworm]

Any worries about detritus collecting under and behind the frame, or a plan to keep it out?

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


Any worries about detritus collecting under and behind the frame ... Of course, but nothing major ... this type of object always accumulates some detritus. The pics don't show it clearly, but there is flow space around the entire object, besides, I'm figuring on a complete tear-down/cleaning every three months.


:D

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


For the first time ever ... I'm actually applying some forms of automation to one of my systems. I'm really liking my new LiterMeter III unit from Spectrapure. This temporary set-up replaced evaporation loss for 15 days ...

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/topOff001.jpg

Here's the support that anchored the intake and airstone ...

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/topOff002.jpg

While this set-up is temporary (still pondering the "final" positioning of reservoir vessels), it did the job nicely. BTW ... Brian ... the Outrigger is on a new "cultural restoration" kick ...

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/kona---TemplesBetter.jpg


I wish I was still there ... :D

[BrianPlankis]

While this set-up is temporary (still pondering the "final" positioning of reservoir vessels), it did the job nicely. BTW ... Brian ... the Outrigger is on a new "cultural restoration" kick ...

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/kona---TemplesBetter.jpg

I wish I was still there ... :D

I do hope they are considering the construction they are doing right next to the fringing reef there....A few large waves and all that sediment....

I do wish I was still there too :)

Brian

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !

I do hope they are considering the construction they are doing right next to the fringing reef there....A few large waves and all that sediment. ... They're trying to restore to "original position". They had a pathway display showing the archaeological diagram of the whole property from ~ 1957. The entire site had building foundations and fish ponds ... I'm surprised that there are no reports of the spirits of Hawaiian aquaculturalists haunting the place.

:D

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


I finally settled on a DIY water filtration configuration with Aquatechnic Kati-Ani units. I got all the stuff from "The Filter Guys." Jim at http://www.thefilterguys.biz is an outstanding technical support source, and my entire purchasing experience with them was first rate. I definitely recommend them if you're looking for Kati-Ani units and DIY water filration/purification components. An ecommerce operation with easy to understand technical support, that does what it says it will do, when it says it will do it, at the price they advertise ... you've simply got to love it. Anyway ...


Toys removed from their boxes ...
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/01filterguysOrder.jpg


The Kati-Ani units ...
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/02katianiUnits.jpg


Kati close-up ...
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/03katiCloseup.jpg


Ani close-up ...
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/04aniCloseup.jpg


"Standard" 10" filter insert housing units. These ones come with the 1/4" OD connections, but you can get other sizes as well ...
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/0510inchHousingUnits.jpg


Housing unit top close-up ...
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/0610inchHousingUnitsCloseup.jpg


Mechanical and chemical filter inserts. I'm still waiting for two additional inserts from Spectrapure ...
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/07insertFilters.jpg


Liquid-filled pressure gauge ...
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/08pressureGauge.jpg


Dual inline TDS meter (battery operated) ...
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/09dualInlineTDSmeter.jpg



HTH
:D

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


Here are some pics of the astroturf base for the 60G prop tank ...

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/astroturf01.jpg

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/astroturf02.jpg

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/astroturf03.jpg


Here are some pics of the astroturf "ridges" that I hope Entacmaea will use to shield their bodies from the lights ...

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/astroturf04.jpg

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/astroturf05.jpg

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/astroturf06.jpg

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/astroturf07.jpg



:D

["Umm, fish?"]

Nice work, moderator boy! :) ;)

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


Nice work, moderator boy! :) ;)Yikes ... and thanks! :D


Here's the frame to which the water filtration system will be attached. A lot of the stuff that I'm doing with this project is being dictated by the physical space limitations, and the anticipation that everything will wind up being moved into a more permanent home sometime during the next 3 years ...

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/filterFrame.jpg



Micro-bubbles are annoying, and in-sump protein skimmers perform better with a consistent water level where they're located (how's that for a non sequitor?). I decided to put "baffles" into the sump to address both issues ...

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/sumpBubbleTrap.jpg



:D

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !

Well ... ~ 3 weeks behind schedule, but I'm finally ready for initial broodstock. System operating nominally, and water chemistry is spiffy.

Time for specimens ... :frogjump:

As soon as the gallery is back up, or when my website becomes operational (whichever happens first), I'll post pics.


:thumbsup:

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


Just a quick update ...

Apologies for the broken image links. The website that had been hosting them is no longer in existence ... that's why they disappeared. I established a new, personal website this morning, so as soon as I get a chance, I'll get the images back up.

The project continues to progress (albeit slower than I had planned). The final initial system "shakedown" has been concluded ... all components nomial ... and the initial RBTA anemone specimens could be in the system as early as next week.

As part of the final system evaluation, I went out and purchased a pink-tipped GBTA from an LFS in Orange county, and have been taking pictures of his (... her? ... its? ...) acclimation process. I'll be posting those in a thread in the "Bubble Tip Anemones (Entacmaea quadricolor - Difficult)" forum as soon as I crop and host the pics. This particular GBTA specimen was chosen because it was typical of the partially starved, partially bleached of zooxanthellae BTAs so representative of what LFSs in SoCal get when they go fishing on 104th street ...

... in other words, I wanted a REAL system test ... :eek: :eek: :lol:


:thumbsup:

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


Here's one with the initial GBTA "test" specimen ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/SystemGBTAtest02.jpg


Here's the front side of the water reservoir and filtration system. The LiterMeter III on the right will eventually find a home on top of the reservoir ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/SystemH2Ofront.jpg



:thumbsup:

[GreshamH]

what are you plans for getting them out of teh egg crate? hang them over the water like they do in many collection situations?

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


what are you plans for getting them out of teh egg crate? ... The pics so far don't clearly show the window screen that covers all eggcrate openings. Getting them out isn't an issue ...

... unless they escape into the back spaces ... :wallbash:

Much as the astroturf is functional, I'm not pleased with it, and the slow leaching of residual blue dye from the material is both unexpected (I thought the 2 week soaking would prevent this), and annoying (subtly screws up aesthetics & pics). I'm currently planning on experimenting with (1) indoor - outdoor carpeting, (2) a screen "sandwich" utilizing the heavy-duty 1/4" mesh (from aquatic ecosystems) and 1/8" screen, and (3) a screen "sandwich" with a layer of aragonite.


... hang them over the water like they do in many collection situations?Gods of the Reef ... :smashcomp:

Despite this being a common practice, both industrially and privately, I've never been comfortable with what the internal water weight is doing to the various tissue layers of an anmeone suspended in mid-air. Unless it's unavoidable, I much prefer the ice pack (negative thermotaxis) strategy.

On parallel tangents ...

Robin convinced me to overcome my reluctance regarding PVC fittings as attachment surfaces. The specimens I got from him seem perfectly content playing in PVC. Long have I been pondering "basket" configurations (... slopes, peaks, ledges, arches ...) to increase the attachment area within growout tanks, but PVC had not been near the top of the list of materials. This has changed.

Also, both hobbyist anecdotes and the research literature make reference to positive chemotaxis (movement towards) with regards to CaCO3 bearing surfaces. I'm looking at how to incorporate aragonite such that it won't present any detachment issues, and that it can be easily cleaned between "generations".

But maybe I'm dreaming here ... :lol:


:thumbsup:

[GreshamH]

I've seen "marine" carpet used, the stuff used on boats.

Almost all anem's that are exported are "drained" of their fluids prior to shipping. Do you think that practice is bad? They'll place them on window screen and allow most the fluids to pass out so you get a tight little ball for shipping. Industry has found over the years this vastly improves the survival of anem's in shipping, along with no water added to the bag (sometimes a damp paper towel is used).

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


I've seen "marine" carpet used, the stuff used on boats. ... The LFSs that I've worked in used the indoor/outdoor/marine carpeting a lot. Indeed, both Underwater World Enterprises and Quality Marine use them in their 104th street systems ... RK2 used to use it in some of the systems they installed (... when I called them up last year for a specific brand recommendation they came up with, 'Just make sure it's rubber backed'. Such helpfulness ... go figure). The thing is ... those pesky carpeting manufacturers keep changing their binding and mold/mildew chemical mixes over time, and neither they, nor their distributors seem to be willing to recommend an entirely chemical-free product. But I have come to strangely enjoy the glazed, temporarily brain-dead look I get when I explain why a chemical-free carpeting is important to me ...

Go figure ... :lol: :frogjump:

I'm currently soaking some of the indoor/outdoor glue-backed available from HD. We'll see ... I may yet resort to the marine carpeting offered at Lowes.



... Almost all anem's that are exported are "drained" of their fluids prior to shipping. Do you think that practice is bad? They'll place them on window screen and allow most the fluids to pass out so you get a tight little ball for shipping. Industry has found over the years this vastly improves the survival of anem's in shipping, along with no water added to the bag (sometimes a damp paper towel is used).Indeed ... I was talking about draining them while they're hanging. Window screen drainage is what I'm planning on using. They definitely need to lose the majority of their water content prior to shipping. Not only is the practice not bad ... it's necessary.

Sorry I was unclear ... :smashcomp: :D

Robin and I talked about the "dry" shipping concept, and he settled on ~1/4 water volume in the bags I got last week. I've never done dry personally, but I keep reading good things about it. Certainly you've gotta love anything that lowers shipping cost. In the past I've used the 1/4 - 1/3 of the bag filled with water while the remaining 3/4 - 2/3 of the volume is filled with O2. While I'm comfortable with this (it's almost always proven successful with a >32 hour transit time ... and I'm disturbingly reluctant to abandon tactics that work), I'm much intrigued by the idea of letting them drain & "mucus up" (... it's the mucus exudate that allows the dry choice to work ...) and then providing minimal water. The anemones that I've unbagged from South Pacific transships DEFINITELY have a higher survival rate correlated to minimal water in their bag.

I could never find anyone who could give me believeable assurances that their paper product was absolutely 100% chemical and ink free. Any brand/source recommendations for "paper towels"?



JMO
:thumbsup:

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


Okay ... I think I've fixed all the broken image links. Please shoot me a PM if you discover a broken link in this thread. TIA ! ... :D


Got the second 200G water reservoir in place ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/reservoir2nd.gif


One of the things I'm most concerned about is temperature control (the chiller gets installed sometime in the next two weeks), but an often overlooked part of that is knowing what the temperature actually is. For this I recommend hand-held, lab grade thermometers ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/thermometers.gif

The red one uses red-spirit alcohol, and the yellow one uses silver mercury (... which you should be extraordinarily careful with when using! We're talking about a potentially seriously hazardous material ...). It's always a good thing when similar instruments, made by different manufacturers, give the same reading. The system is currently fluctuating from 82.4 F to 81.8 F. I'm trying to have it shift around 82 F (... so far so good ...), but I'm considering a slightly larger range.

We'll see ... :frogjump:



:thumbsup:


JMO
:thumbsup:

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


The madness truly begins ... again ... :elephant: :elephant: :elephant: :frogjump:

There's three different strains of RBTA, and I'll post images of them in other threads. The sponge filters are finally in place, and they're run off of a "Hurricane 5" air pump with lithium batteries in case of power interruption. All that remains to be inserted are the chiller and ozonizer components for the "hardware" side of the system to be complete. I'm still pondering whether or not I'm going to insert a modified fluidized bed column (a la zeolith chambers with bac and carbon source dosing) to deal with ROCs ("refractory organic compounds"). I've also introduced a clump of Chaetomorpha algae, but may ultimately remove it out of allelopathic concerns.

Here's what the system looks like currently ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys01-2-08.gif

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys02-2-08.gif

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys03-2-08.gif

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys04-2-08.gif

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys05-2-08.gif

The larger specimens on the right are aquacultured clones (... many thanks again to Gresham for the connection ... and to Robin for the specimens and an exquisite overall transaction ...). The specimen on the right is an "Orange Sunburst" with white "flecks" variety that I picked up from Ali at his LFS (Amazing Aquariums and Reefs) in Orange, and although you can't easily see it in these pics (or up close with your face pressed against the glass, for that matter), there's a different strain, 1.5" diameter clone nestled in the 2" PVC piece near the divider in the left-side compartment that I also got from Robin.


:thumbsup:

[BrianPlankis]

Looking good Gary! how many anemones do you think this system can hold comfortably?

Brian

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


Thanks Brian ... :D . After running the thing empty for almost 4 months (I like to dial-in water parameters and holding capacity, i.e., bioload carrying capacity, relatively slowly and let the system "mature"), I'm more than a little stoked to actually begin hosting specimens in it ... :frogjump:

How many? ... hehe ... that's the 24 dollar question. The tanks pictured are not "production" tanks. Their purpose is fundamentally acclimation, photo-documentation, and "testing". As currently laid out, they should accomodate 30-45 4"-5" specimens, each with their own 1.5 diameter "basket". The actual production tanks are slated to hold 40-50 specimens, but this remains an open question until I get to the point when I can see how real populations behave and grow.

The search for the maximum number is why I'm so interested in modifications to the internal surface geometry. The numbers that get thrown around the Calfo forum threads is always a X number per gallon number (Calfo's ratio of specimens:gallons has typically been 1:1). I've always had the sense that the number is going to be more accurately defined as a function of submerged surface area. The per gallon number has always struck me as more of a filtration bioload number, as opposed to maximum occupancy, not that both aren't intertwined.



JMO
:thumbsup:

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


BTW, you can find better pictures of the broodstock here:

Broodstock Strain: RB01
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1776

Broodstock Strain: Sunburst 01
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1775



:frogjump:

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


I knew I would get a fundamentally different bacteria guild compared to the one that typically develops in reef tanks, but this one is more interesting than I thought it would be. Also, the dinoflagellate population is a little more persistent than I expected ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys04-01.jpg

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys04-02.jpg


Yes ... I'm strange about this ... :frogjump: :lol:



:thumbsup:

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


Just a few random shots since the last system pics ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys04-03.jpg

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys04-04.jpg



:thumbsup:

[CarmieJo]

Those rose ones certainly look brilliant against the blue!

[miwoodar]

Indeed, the red and blue together is a nice combo.

Gary - looking forward to updates!

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !

I'm glad you like the color combo ... it was something that I pondered more than I should have. The next liner color will be dark grey, so we'll see if if looks any better. Functional as the astroturf is, I'm not liking the maintenance time with it at all.


As temps began to rise along the socal coastline, it became time for the chiller ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys-chiller.jpg

This is 1/3 HP JBJ, plumbed through the sump, and driven by a MagDrive 700. The factory thermostat was off by 1.2 F and had to be recalibrated.

And you all thought the lab grade thermometers were a bit much ... :lol: ;)



:thumbsup:

[graveyardworm]

Gary, what temp are you maintaining the prop system at?

[graveyardworm]

Found this quote a page back
The system is currently fluctuating from 82.4 F to 81.8 F. I'm trying to have it shift around 82 F (... so far so good ...), but I'm considering a slightly larger range.
Did you incorrectly state the fluctuation?

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


David ... When I arrived at the system this week, I discovered that (1) the low temperature had risen to about 82.4 F (28 C), and (2) the high temperature was running at ~> 86 F (30 C). This was due to the recent increase in area temperature, and my Dad's decision to not ventilate the garage as we had been doing previously.

Hence the insertion of the chiller ... :D
Hence a clarification of ventilation protocol ... :lol:

Even so, I've decided to run the system a little warmer than I had previously planned. The chiller is now calibrated to a range of 82-84 F . I guesstimate that gives me a "real" range of ~ 81.5 - 84.5 F ... need to see what the records look like next week to be sure.

I know this runs counter to a lot of folks' opinions regarding optimal temperature range. One thing is for sure ... the WC "sunburst" from Bali definitely likes the warmer temperature. He's not roaming as much as before (this may be a false correlation), and his expansion-contraction patterns are much better (i.e., less frequent, more extension, more volume, more surface area).

I'm actually pondering three different temperature ranges throughout the year:

Spring: 82-84 F
Summer 83-85 F
Fall: 82-84 F
Winter: 81-83 F


:thumbsup:

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


BTW, the first RB01 clones from the system are pictured here ...

Unaided Cloning Event
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10401#post10401



:elephant:

[miwoodar]

Hi Gary - nice pictures.

So you had some temp swings and within a week you had the cloning event? Did you expect this to occur?

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !



... Did you expect this to occur? Nope, but given the size of specimens and their cloning history, perhaps I shouldn't have been so surprised ... :D


... So you had some temp swings and within a week you had the cloning event? ... Correlation does not imply causation ... :frogjump:

Even so, temperature shift (although usually downward) has been frequently reported online as a cloning stimulus.



JMO ... HTH
:thumbsup:

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


I've divided one of the tanks into thirds ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sysDivided001.gif

A closer look at one of the compartments ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sysDivided002.gif


I've inserted sponge filters and 3 returns into the other tank ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sysSide2-001.gif



:thumbsup:

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


Snails keeping the sponge filter clean ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/spongeSnails01.gif


Eating the biofilm in the other tank ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/spongeSnails02.gif



:thumbsup:

["Umm, fish?"]

Wow! Your tank looks fantastic, Gary! I must say, you're making me want to start one of those.

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


Since the anemones keep insisting on dividing without my assistance, I finally have enough of a single strain to get rid of the dividers ...


http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys04-22-08_01.gif

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys04-22-08_02.gif



:frogjump:

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


The Chaetomorpha was becoming problematic, so I pruned it back ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys04-chaeto-22-08_01.gif

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/snail01-1.gif



:elephant:

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


More system shots ...

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys04-22-08_03.gif

http://anemonelab.com/garageSysPics/sys04-22-08_04.gif



:thumbsup:

[loyalrogue]

Much as the astroturf is functional, I'm not pleased with it, and the slow leaching of residual blue dye from the material is both unexpected (I thought the 2 week soaking would prevent this), and annoying (subtly screws up aesthetics & pics). I'm currently planning on experimenting with (1) indoor - outdoor carpeting, (2) a screen "sandwich" utilizing the heavy-duty 1/4" mesh (from aquatic ecosystems) and 1/8" screen, and (3) a screen "sandwich" with a layer of aragonite.
So are you still planning to keep using the blue astroturf, or have you made the decision to change to a different lining?

I am in the process of setting up some anemone prop tanks and am roadblocked on the AstroTurf decision.

Where did you buy that particular blue astroturf, and is it actually AstroTurf brand for use on ballfields or is it the outdoor carpeting available at carpet and home improvement stores?

I saw the same blue 100% olefin indoor/outdoor 10oz. carpet at Home Depot with black rubber backing, but when I ran my fingernail across the backing it just flaked away and pulled out the blue "blades of grass".
After seeing that I certainly don't trust it in my tank.
I might consider the heavier duty version with the extra white latex backing, but I really want to find out what has worked best for other successful anemone farmers instead of going thru all the trial and error on my own.

[GaryWhite]

Greetings All !


loyalrogue ...

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/gallery/files/1/6/8/DIBSwelcome01.jpg



So are you still planning to keep using the blue astroturf, or have you made the decision to change to a different lining? ... I've made the decision to actively explore other lining materials. I'm currently soaking the "greystone black" marine backing indoor/outdoor carpeting locally available from Lowes. The last month I deluded myself that I could work with the latex-glue backed stuff ... it was a complete waste of time.



... I am in the process of setting up some anemone prop tanks and am roadblocked on the AstroTurf decision. ... Hehe ... I know the feeling. :lol:



... Where did you buy that particular blue astroturf, and is it actually AstroTurf brand for use on ballfields or is it the outdoor carpeting available at carpet and home improvement stores? ... Mine is the Home Depot version of blue "astroturf".



... I saw the same blue 100% olefin indoor/outdoor 10oz. carpet at Home Depot with black rubber backing, but when I ran my fingernail across the backing it just flaked away and pulled out the blue "blades of grass". After seeing that I certainly don't trust it in my tank. I might consider the heavier duty version with the extra white latex backing, but I really want to find out what has worked best for other successful anemone farmers instead of going thru all the trial and error on my own.The little blade fragments that continue to break off aren't nearly as annoying as I thought they'd be. The "issues" I have with the blue astroturf are: (A) an ongoing leaching of small amounts of blue dye (even after a 3 week dedicated soak and almost daily rinsing during prep), (B) the tendency of microbubbles to accumulate within the blades, (C) the accumulation of detritus, algae, and dinoflagellates within the blades, and (D) the "too loose" attachment that the anemone specimens demonstrate. None of these are "killer issues" ... the leaching will eventually stop, microbubbles are microbubbles (more of an aesthetic annoyance than a real problem), maintenance is required anyway so the accumulation of various "stuff" isn't that big a deal, and the anemones are quite easily detached from the surface.

Even so, there's simply got to be a better solution ... so I'm looking for it. :D

The rubber marine backed stuff is my last foray into the land of indoor/outdoor carpeting. If I'm not completely satisfied, the alternatives order of experimentation is: combinations of various screening attached to eggcrate, rubber liner (the next phase of system tanks are going to be DIY plywood with pond liner ... probably), and limestone & aragonite embedded in resin.

As long as I'm ranting ... the "ledges" that I built in are both completely successful & utterly stupid, all at the same time. :lol:

The Entacmaea clearly utilize them as a way to shield their foot/stalk from light ... mission accomplished ... but I got the geometry all wrong. The 90 degree right angle (relative to the light source) is clearly wrong. The next generation structures will be between 45-60 (relative) angles. Also, they're going to be "sunk in", as opposed to "stuck out". They're not going to be ledges, but instead they're going to be grooves/"crevices" ... both on the bottom surface, and along the sides. Also, while it's not near the tpo of my to-do list, I definitely intend to screw around with +-chemotaxis towards limestone & aragonite. I've lost track of the link, but somewhere out in cyberspace there's an article about Entacmaea demonstrating a "preference" for limestone & aragonite surfaces.





JMO ... HTH
:thumbsup: