Brian's 2008 Manicina aerolata challenge thread

[BrianPlankis]

Hey all,

Well, 2007 did not work, but 2008 has begun and if M. aerolata does keep to its natural breeding cycle then starting in around late Feb to March we'll be at the start of the breeding season again. So I'm going to take stock of my colonies and start to plan a little for the breeding season.

Just to get it out of the way, in 2007 I lost the following colonies:

http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/images/ProjectDIBS/Challenges/Manicina/20070320ManicinaColony1.JPG

Colony #1 just stopped eating and then I saw it getting attacked by the Eucinid worms that are reproducing in my tank. It quickly lost all its flesh when I was out of town for a speaking visit.

Colony #5
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/images/ProjectDIBS/Challenges/Manicina/20070320ManicinaColony5small.JPG

I lost Colony #5, which was my second favorite coral. It simply stopped eating and no amount of laying food directly on its oral disc did anything to elicit a feeding response. It stayed alive for about 3 months and then lost all its flesh in a few days.

Colony #6
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/images/ProjectDIBS/Challenges/Manicina/20070320ManicinaColony6.JPG

I lost Colony #6 the same way. Both colony #5 and #6 were overturned multiple times when they were on the sandbed, so that may have contributed.

I'll move on to the good news in my next post.....

[BrianPlankis]

Hey all,

On to the good news for 2008. Colony #3 is starting to look healthy finally. For those of you that don't remember, this coral was a rescue coral that I took in from a hobbyist with tank problems.

Here is how it looked the night I got it back in March, 2006.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/Manicina/brain1.jpg

Two weeks later and really struggling to hang on.
http://www.thedibsfoundation.org/images/SpeciesCatalog/Manicina/Colony3/ManicinaColony3April2006.jpg

From this original thread:
http://www.projectdibs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367&highlight=manicina

And how it looks today, almost 2 years later!
http://www.thedibsfoundation.org/images/SpeciesCatalog/Manicina/20080112ManicinaColony3Overview.jpg

A closeup:
http://www.thedibsfoundation.org/images/SpeciesCatalog/Manicina/Colony3/20080112ManicinaColony3Closeup.jpg

The only problem with this picture? One of my first Pocillopora recruits decided to land right next to colony #3, so I decided to dremel the rock in half tonight. Hopefully I did not damage either coral.

The coral is up to 7 mouths, and while it is still too small to be capable of breeding this year, it is finally starting to look healthy and has a VERY strong feeding response, best among my Manicina.

[Zooid]

WOW, that's an amazing comeback. Congratulations, I would have considered that coral a goner and now it looks excellent.

[BrianPlankis]

WOW, that's an amazing comeback. Congratulations, I would have considered that coral a goner and now it looks excellent.

Thanks, for a variety of reasons the Manicina is by far my favorite species of coral and I really would like to crack the breeding barrier on them.

Just FYI, I fed the corals last night at 1am and despite the trauma of being out of the water for a while while I split the rock in two it took in all the food I squirted on its oral disc. What a champ as an eater! :thumbsup:

It always amazes me how much these corals will eat. Even this guy (who is now my smallest one after 5 and 6 passing) will eat almost half a cube of food in one meal.

Brian

[BrianPlankis]

The good news continues:

Ok, so the dremel operation was a success, colony #3 is doing just fine (actually looks expanded even more than the picture with the Pocillopora next to it) and continues to eat like a pig.

One surprising thing is that I moved colony #6 to what I thought was its deathbed in another section of the tank and a small portion of the flesh has recovered and had a feeding response when I fed the tank last night. It still is very ragged looking (similar to colony #3 when I first got it), but I'm going to attempt to save it with careful feeding.

Also, my largest adult colony had stopped eating about 6 days ago, with no feeding response to my "fish food mush" that all my other Manicina gobble down. I was getting a bit worried and decided to attempt the Hikari small sinking pellets last night and it IMMEDIATELY puffed up and gobbled down all the pellets I put on its surface. I took some pretty cool pictures of the mouth and mesenterial filaments working together, hopefully I can post those later today.

I've been feeding the colonies pretty heavily the last 3-4 months and will continue to do so now that breeding season is basically here. I will work on finding my digital calipers and will measure the length and diameter of all the colonies sometime this month to see how many colonies I have that are considered "sexually mature" by the literature.

Brian

[BrianPlankis]

Here are some pictures I took last night of Manicina Colony #11 feeding:

First two sinking pellets landed near a mouth:

http://www.thedibsfoundation.org/images/SpeciesCatalog/Manicina/Colony11/20080201ManicinaFeedStep1.jpg

Then some mesenterial filaments came out to help pull the food into the mouth:

http://www.thedibsfoundation.org/images/SpeciesCatalog/Manicina/Colony11/20080201ManicinaFeedStep2.jpg

Almost inside the mouth:

http://www.thedibsfoundation.org/images/SpeciesCatalog/Manicina/Colony11/20080201ManicinaFeedStep3.jpg

Finally the mouth closing around the food (and pumps back on):

http://www.thedibsfoundation.org/images/SpeciesCatalog/Manicina/Colony11/20080201ManicinaFeedStep4.jpg

Brian

[BrianPlankis]

Just a quick update,

I placed 2 of my colonies (both should be of breeding size) in a planulae collector on 2-27-2008 and 2-21-2008 and I did not find any planulae the next morning on either day. I will continue placing the colonies in the collector as often as possible between now and July.

Brian

[graveyardworm]

Amazing how fast a year goes by. Good luck

[BrianPlankis]

WOW, that's an amazing comeback. Congratulations, I would have considered that coral a goner and now it looks excellent.

Dang...I spoke too soon. This coral has stopped eating, it hasn't eaten for about 3 weeks now and I've even tried feeding it in a tupperware bowl several times. It has lost over 1/2 its flesh and the rest does not look good. All the remaining Manicina are eating well and have no signs of damage.

I wonder what type of requirement I'm missing that causes them to stop eating? Sigh. At this rate it looks like my Manicina breeding experiment is turning into a Manicina basic care experiment. I will work on varying their diet even more in the hopes of finding some missing nutrient they require.

I will also dedicate a species tank to them once I'm done with school. I also am planning on removing several corals from the tank now to hopefully reduce chemical competition.

Also, kind of an afterthought at this point, but no planulae found in collection attempts on nights:

March 3
March 10
March 15

Brian

[Iceman]

Dang...I spoke too soon. This coral has stopped eating, it hasn't eaten for about 3 weeks now and I've even tried feeding it in a tupperware bowl several times. It has lost over 1/2 its flesh and the rest does not look good. All the remaining Manicina are eating well and have no signs of damage.
I'm sorry to hear that Brian. Hopefully you can you bring it back to health yet.

[BrianPlankis]

No planulae found:

March 24th
April 4th
April 9th

I also have had to stop using my main adult colony. It has developed a hole in the flesh and I am going to stop moving it around so much. It is still eating, so hopefully it recovers.

Brian

[BrianPlankis]

Hey all,

I only attempted planulae collection once during May (May 5th) and did not find any, but only have two colonies I'm attempting to collect planulae from and one of them is borderline breeding size.

While there are plenty of things to speculate about for the lack of planulae, there are some obvious stressors that I can't seem to eliminate from this system:

1. The Eucinid worms continue to pick at the corals. No amount of hunting of the worms will possibly eliminate them. Perhaps I could find a predator of the worms, but they hide so well I'm just assuming they will be only partially effective. I find signs of irritation from all corals almost every morning, frequently with small "bite marks" or mesenterial filaments being extruded.

The two colonies I have that are picked on more frequently are slowly eating less each time and one looks quite sick. While I have no data of any kind to back this statement up, the worms are a problem. Once I am finished at the University of Houston I will have to setup a new tank dedicated to just the Manicina using bare dead rock and new specimens to try to keep the worms out.

2. The strain of bubble algae I have in this tank likes to form underneath the Manicina and I'm constantly removing it. It isn't much of a problem in the rest of the tank, but they always quickly recolonize the Manicina colonies. If I'm lax in removing it, then it slowly starts pushing the flesh off the skeleton as the bubbles expand. Setting up a new tank without the bubble algae would probably be very helpful.

There are other obvious reasons (lack of spawning cues, not enough food, not enough of the right kind of food, etc, etc.) but without removing these two irritants it is hard to tell.

:wallbash:

Brian

["Umm, fish?"]

Bummer, Brian. I actually just contacted the guy at Aquatouch in Arizona a few days ago to see if he had any Manicina in stock. His response:

So far this spring the Manicina corals have been to small to ship. I suspect they spawned or settled late this season. We estimate it will probably be mid July before we have them again for sale.

But, to get back to your troubles. Is it possible that you could suspend the corals in your tank, at least for a little while? Maybe hang an eggcrate shelf suspended from the top of the tank? Just to give them a respite from the predation.

Bubble algae. Sigh. I know what you're going through. I never got a chance to try it, but I read recently that someone suggested shooting kalkwasser into the bubble with a hypodermic. The idea is not only to kill the mother bubble, but also all of the spores inside. (Is spores really the right terminology?) Like I said, I never tried it, but it sounds like a good idea to me. The other idea I've heard is to hook up a UV filter to use while and after you pull out the bubbles, to try to kill the spores.

BTW, I think it was my battle with the bubble algae that was the cause of my tank crash. When I moved, I pulled all of the rock out and scrubbed the bubbles. I think in so doing, I also disturbed too many of the sponges and released the awful bacteria that Eric says often shows up after sponge disturbances.

Good luck!

[BrianPlankis]

But, to get back to your troubles. Is it possible that you could suspend the corals in your tank, at least for a little while? Maybe hang an eggcrate shelf suspended from the top of the tank? Just to give them a respite from the predation.


This might be possible, but some of the worms have taken up residence in the rocks that the Manicina are attached to. I believe 3 of them could be removed from these rocks and then remounted without damage, but the other 4 have all grown onto the rocks and cannot be removed without damage.

I might consider suspending them when I have time to work on the tank in late May/June. Eric does not have these worms in his tank and his colonies are doing much better (but several other conditions differ as well).

Ultimately I will need to get:

1. Dead base rock
2. A new tank with new equipment that does not have any of the bubble algae on it.
3. A new supply of Manicina colonies that do not have the worms with them.

I will attempt this once I graduate and find my new job. Until then I will continue feeding these Manicina and see what happens.

Brian

[BrianPlankis]

Hey all,

Since cg0571 asked this in another thread:


anything new, or old in this project? it comes in on aquacultured florida rock? i wonder if you called one of those places (i have a couple of places i am interested in buying from) like sea life inc. and ask if they could hunt for some larger specimens for us.


Here is an update/answer:

1. This coral will come in on aquacultured florida rock, but in 2008 (or was it 2009?) Tampa Bay Saltwater's location suffered through a red tide that wiped out ALL of his Manicina corals. He has not seen any since the red tide, so finding another vendor will be crucial. Please respond to this thread if you end up finding any.

2. I ended up taking my last Manicina and chiseling it from the aquacultured rock it was on and carefully dipping the bare rock in fresh water. This caused a bunch of the Eucinid worms to jump "ship" and die. I then rinsed the rock in filtered tank water and put it back in the tank. The coral appeared to make a recovery and was eating quite heavily every time I fed it.

3. I was starting to get optimistic about it and then hurricane Ike hit. The coral did not make it through the 4 day power outage, despite being able to borrow a generator and using several battery powered air bubblers.

Since then I have not attempted to get more of these corals. It is likely that the Eucinid worms are still in my tank, so I will not get more of them until I can setup a new tank with the following conditions:

1. All dead rock, no live rock used to avoid introducing the worms.

2. A new tank with new equipment to avoid bubble algae.

3. A new supply of the corals, preferably removed from any rock they come in on and dipping any rock that can't be removed in fresh water to remove any worms.

4. Some type of reliable power source, most likely solar panels with a battery backup, that can provide backup power in the event the main grid goes out. The generator was nice for Ike, but you can't run it 24/7. Seems like if I'm going to attempt these corals long term, I can't do so without at least planning for power outages carefully.

5. Probably would be great to get some funding for a dedicated building as well, or at least a large fish room before attempting again. So sadly these corals are on hold for me, despite them still being my favorite coral reef animal. I just hope we can position the RSF to have a proper location for them before they are impossible to get from the wild.

Brian

[cg5071]

sorry to hear all that. i plan on finding some of the corals in the near future. the touch place seems expensive to me, they want $50+ it doesnt state a size but they are juveniles that were aqua cultured. or is that about a normal price?

i too plan to get a battery back up for circulation and some battery powered air pumps anyways. alot of people in south michigan had tanks crash this yr because of T storms. we didnt have any of that but still. i live in the northern tip of the mitt. we live 2 blocks from out power station so we havnt had a power loss for more than a couple of seconds in 3 yrs. knock on wood. before the re-routing of the wiring it was fairly common to lose power. better safe than sorry though.

while i dont have a ton of space set up for tanks it will be good to have a start on this anyways. i do have a larger room that i imagine will keep filling up with saltwater equipment as time passes :) and i am not as scientific (yet) about this as some of you are i can help in other ways.

i will check into a couple of those florida places and see about some specimans. probably not for a month or 2 as money allows though. i guess it wouldnt hurt to inqure anyways.